Saturday, April 19, 2014

Thomas Larsson - DUFOUR 30 ARPEGE VERSUS DUFOUR 310GL

Hi Paulo, 
Well, as you guessed the guys are not all that serious all the time, at least not in the first half of the video :) But they do actually mention that the 310 is a lot faster than the Arpege, I think about 1,5 knots upwind. 
And the 310 feels also much bigger than 31 feet. 
That´s actually my sailmaker from North Sails, Anders, helming the 310! They also mention that the 310 is much of an inshore boat, slamming a bit already in the sea conditions during the test. 

In the end, the guy from Hamnen asks my sailmaker (who is a very experienced sailor) if he personally could consider the 310 for family sailing, a question he doesn't answer (10:35 in to the test)... meaning NO! So, probably more of a boat for cruisers who don´t value a well sailing boat as much as great comfort and space. 

Saying that, I think there is a huge market for the 310 since not too many people put performance first (like me for instance)! By the way, I´m going on vacation tomorrow for a few days in Montreux by lake Geneve and when I get home it´s time to leave again, this time for Denmark to pick up my new Dragonfly, that I´ve told you about earlier. Cheers!

Hi Thomas!

And thank you for your comments. I was a bit confused with your explanation regarding why the sailmaker did not reply. The question was if he would consider the boat for family cruising, not for racing. On a 30 ft boat for family cruising space is of essence and the Dufour has a very nice interior, a good cruising one, so why should he say no? It seems to me that for a main market boat the Dufour 310 sails pretty well. In fact he was just sailing with a self taking Jib while on those conditions he could use a genoa upwind and an assymetric spi downwind. For the price that boat costs I have doubts it is possible to find something that sails as well and has such a good interior.

Of course others would prefer a Pogo 30 or a JPK 10.10 but those boats are not only considerably more expensive but they also have a worse cruising interior and less tankage. Not saying I would not prefer any of  those two (if I had the money I would) but that is not the point. The point is that they are not the same type of boats, directed to the same type of sailors and on a boat test the tester should be testing the boat regarding what the boat was designed for and regarding the sailors the boat is aimed to. He should not test it with his preferences in mind but objectively regarding the boat market and having as reference similar boats.

Regarding slamming, things are what they are, a Pogo 30 would be much faster but would be slamming a lot more. Slamming or not slamming has also to do with the one at the wheel. Not all boats can be sailed upwind with waves at the same angle. If the boat was slamming with that sea it means that he was pushing the boat too much upwind. Not all boats and types of hulls are the same. 

The guys from Yacht.de when they tested the SO 349 said that the boat did not slam and had a very nice sea motion. Those hulls are very similar and I bet that the 310 does not slam more than the SO 349. If a guy is used to sail for instance on a J111 he is going to find that both boats (the SO 349 and the Dufour 310) slam upwind if he tries to sail them as the J111 and that's why a boat tester should have an huge experience with all types of boats. That's the only way not to be partial and not to compare a boat with others that have nothing to relate with.

Sorry about the rant but I felt I should clear this.

I will be closing the Blog soon, to go sailing. I will get back in October and I would like a full report on your new Dragonfly 32 with lots of information. I count on that ;-)



Hi Paulo,
Yes you are right, and I knew you would be a bit confused about it! It is a good boat for family cruising, but some people just can´t let stop racing even if the family is on board :) I think they just used him in the test for fun (he is an ex Volvo ocean race skipper) and not because he was interested in the boat in the first place. As I said, these guys at Hamnen are not all that serious all the time!

I wish you a very nice sailing season and I will definitely give you a full report on the dragonfly. Cheers!!

Thomas

Thanks again and most of all have fun with the new boat!!!! I know the sensation and it's one of the best we can have. Enjoy your perfect boat ;-)

Paulo

3 comments:

  1. Hi Paulo,

    Yes you are right, and I knew you would be a bit confused about it! It is a good boat for family cruising, but some people just can´t let stop racing even if the family is on board :) I think they just used him in the test for fun (he is an ex Volvo ocean race skipper) and not because he was interested in the boat in the first place. As I said, these guys at Hamnen are not all that serious all the time!

    I wish you a very nice sailing season and I will definitely give you a full report on the dragonfly. Cheers!!

    //Thomas

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  2. It's really just comparing apples to oranges. Speed, roominess, creature comforts, egress and ingress, which they decided to show, are all going to be features of a modern boat, that an old boat would simply be behind the curve in. Not to mention the Dufour 310GL is just a bigger boat, and everyone knows length equals speed. But they didn't really address "Seaworthiness!" I mean which boat would you rather take off shore, or make a crossing in?

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  3. I guess it would not make a big difference between the two boats. The new Dufour would be stiffer and with a bigger overall stability, the older boat probably would have a slightly better AVS (but the new one would be making more force to re-right itself at 90º).

    On the Transquadra lots of sailors crossing the Atlantic with boats of that size, with a similar stability, not mentioning a friend that has crossed the South Atlantic (to Brazil) with a First 30, but the truth is that today nobody (or almost nobody) thinking in making big passages will chose a 30ft boat. I cruise a lot (now on the med) and I can tell you that my 41fter is a small boat, if compared with the vast majority of boats cruising here.

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