Two boats that belong to the same group, both in aluminum, provably sharing the same basic hull, so what's the point? and what are the diferences? Besides the obvious diference regarding one being a true deck salon and the other a raised saloon with a raised chart table, they are considerable and point to slightly different market sectors.
Both are voyage boats, meaning both are designed for a large autonomy and specifically designed to travel far, but while the Allures 52 is what we could call a voyage boat the Garcia 52 goes a bit further in what regards being designed to be sailed on remote places. That has advantages but also disadvantages, unless you put those features to good use. Both use an identical cutter configuration.
The Garcia 52, regarding the Allures has a reinforced hull structure and while on the Allures the decks are in composite sandwich (to lower the weight) on the Garcia they are in Aluminum to make it an even stronger boat and only the top of the cabin is in composite. All that is responsible for a superior weight of the Garcia, about two tons more (16.9T to 18.8T) and that will certainly make it a slower sailboat and a more expensive one. In fact that diference in price is considerable costing the Allures 52 about as much as the Garcia 45 (incl 20% VAT: 640 000 to 840 000).
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| Allures 52 |
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| Garcia 52 |
I only saw photos of Allures 52 interior and they are quite deceiving, I would say, but I believe that is mostly due just to a bad choice of interior colors/wood. I know well the interior of the 45 that is a very nice one, with good quality all around and also a very functional. The one of the 52 has just the same set up but a bit bigger, giving a good all around outside view from the chart table seat and allowing to sail the boat from the interior.
I had the opportunity to visit the Garcia 52 at Dusseldorf and could confirm what I had previously posted about the 52: While the 45 looks too small and cramped for having that interior configuration, the 52 looks perfect. A nice boat with a wow!!! interior, one that would make a perfect boat to live aboard, with dedicated spaces for everything you can think off, from generator to watermaker, AC, wash machine, big freezer and a diesel tankage to have all the equipments running for a long time (1100L).
The Garcia offers an interior quality and finish that I would call luxurious, with a very nice saloon on two levels, with a raised sitting living space, allowing for an all around view (that will allow the boat to be sailed from the interior), with relatively small "glass surface" in height, but almost continuous in length. Those glasses are double to warrant a good isolation regarding cold or heat.
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| Allures 52 |
I had the luck to have the boat showed to me by the project manager Antonio Costa, a very nice guy but most of all a very knowledgeable one. I have the added pleasure to discuss the boat with him in Portuguese since he is a Luso descendant. I have learned a thing or two with him regarding why some options were chosen regarding others and talked about future developments. Even had the pleasure to see that we shared the same idea in what regards a further improvement of the boat, namely regarding the opcional use of a modern swing keel, the type that is used on the Comet Explorer 46, a deep keel with all the ballast on it. That would allow a big diminution of the boat weight, something like 2T, giving it the same displacement and sail ability of the Allures 52, possibly with a better final stability.
I was really impressed with the level of thought, practicability and functionality that is condensed in that boat and that is only possible because Garcia (and Costa) is the repository of decades building high quality top voyage boats. Most of all it impresses how that practicability does not translate itself on a lesser polished product. In fact it is hard to remember that we are on an Aluminium boat designed to explore remote places and not on a luxurious cruiser, kind of an Oyster or an Halberg Rassy.
I would chose the Allures 52 if I would only want a very good aluminium voyage boat, able to take shelter on very swallow waters and had no desire to sail on remote places or high latitudes. The Allures 52 is a faster and better looking boat and costs 200 000 euros less. If I really dreamed to explore Arctic and Antarctic regions or other really remote places I would chose the Garcia 52 or the Boreal 52. For living aboard full time I would definitively chose the Garcia.
I never had been on a Boreal but the biggest difference regarding the Garcia seems to be the level of finish. Not that the Boreal has not great quality everywhere, but the interior (and exterior) is not as polished as on the Garcia, meaning that it does not look like a luxurious cruiser. Some would dispense the refinement others would prefer to have the better of two worlds. Both cost about the same: about 1 million Euros for a completely equipped sailboat with full options.
The Garcia 52 is already a good looking boat, even if not as nice as the Allures 52 but I can't wait to see the Garcia 62 and I really hope they would go forward with the project. The 62 would really bring the boat design of this type of boats to a new level, making it not only a true explorer boat but a beautiful yacht, whatever the measure. That and a swing keel to increase power, speed and stability would make it truly an universal boat that would look as well on the Med or at the Antarctic.
I had posted already about the Garcia 52 here:
http://interestingsailboats.blogspot.pt/2014/10/garcia-exploration-45-versus-52-and-65.html
Garcia my favorite yacht
ReplyDeleteHi Paolo, for this type of boats do you see an advantage of the swing keel versus centerboard? I mean the centerboard option makes the boat stable in all conditions while the lifting keel only when the keel is lowered.
ReplyDeleteYes, I would see an advantage, if with the swing keel the boat had more stability, a better AVS, a better safety stability, and more power, but in this case it seems to me that they did not use the swing keel to do that, but just to make the boat lighter, and therefore faster with lighter winds but not more seaworthy.
DeleteSo, in this case, if you use the boat to sail in the Med, or Baltic or in any place that has weak winds the swing keel (in this case) is definitively an advantage.
For Ocean sailing, in the trade winds (with medium to strong winds), it has not a big advantage and we can say that the centerboard version is more seaworthy, because it has more overall stability (due to the bigger displacement) and because when the centerboard is up (contrary to the swing keel) the stability remains the same (because the centerboard has no ballast) and that gives it a better dynamic stability.
Do we know the AVS of these boats? Can we compare theAVS with similar boats but with lifting keel? Like Orion 49 or others made by KM Yachts? Or Oysters
ReplyDeleteNice boat, the Orion 49. It looks like a boat that I designed for myself 20 years ago and that was never built.
ReplyDeleteThe Orion 49 with that ballast cannot have a big AVS, neither any of the centerboard boats you mention. Older Dutch centerboard designs had a lot more ballast. Today this type of designs have an AVS between 105 and 120º, being 120 truly exceptional and very, very rare.
If you really want to buy one of these boats and they see you are serious about it they will provide you with the stability curve (if you insist). They have it because it was needed to certify the boat, but they will not make it public, because the relatively low AVS is bad for publicity. However the fact that these boats can raise the centerboard and retain all stability gives them an advantage in what regards dynamic stability.
Unfortunately, in what regard Allures, the brand that offers that type of boat with a swing ballasted keel or a centerboard, it does not seem to me that the AVS and reserve stability will be very different in the two versions (see the comment above. yours).
But if you have the money to pay more, you can always ask Alubat, the ones that make Allures and Cigale, to make you a Cigale with a swing ballasted keel with about 35% B/D and 2.7m draft, and that will give you an AVS as good or better than the ones Oyster have.
You can also have one of the boats made by KM, designed by Dykstra or Van de Stadt and they can modify it to your requirements....but they cost much more than the French aluminium boats.
If you don't want a boat specially luxurious another option is have it made in Italy, designed and built under the supervision of an Italian NA with a good experience with this type of boats. He owns one.
Regarding Oyster it varies from model to model but typically they will have an AVS between 115 and 125º.
Some of these boats, they say, have watertight bulkheads. Before we find out what exactly happened with Tapio Lehtinen boat a few days ago, I was wondering how these watertight bulkheads "work", how exactly they can help. If a front bulkhead is quite easy for me to understand how it can protect the boat, the aft bulkheads seems more complicated to understand, what do they separate, the rudder compartment from the center of the boat? or in some boats the entire technical room, including the engine? Some boats have 3 completely watertight separate areas? : front (sail locker), middle (sleep cabins, galley) and aft (technical area) ? I was looking for example at https://www.pelagic.co.uk/yachts/fleet_50.asp
DeleteYes, when there is an aft water tight bulkhead (very rare), it separates the rudder area from the rest of the boat.
ReplyDeleteBy far the bigger number of intake of water on a sailboat happens on the forward sections (collision with a submerged object), or in the aft sections, when a the rudder collides with an object and the rudder does not break, breaking the hull.
They work isolating those areas and preventing other boat areas to be flooded, assuring the buoyancy and allowing time for working on the breach (if you can reach it) sealing them. There are materials that can seal breaches underwater.