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Sunday, March 22, 2020

THE NEW ARCONA 345 VERSUS DIVA 34SC AND DEHLER 34


Now that the Arcona 345 has just been announced let's have a look at these entry-level performance cruisers, boats with a very good cruising interior and pointed more for cruising than for racing even if they can do very well in club racing.

Arcona 340, Diva 34SC, Dehler 34
The Arcona 345 is the newer model, not yet on the water, but uses a 10-year-old hull (Stefan Qviberg), the one of the 340 that I would say shows already its age, especially in what regards transom design with the max beam still not pulled back as much as the one of the new 435, for instance.

The Arcona comes with several improvements, some aesthetical some functional. Aesthetically the boat has the same cabin but several hatches have been substituted by a long and continuous plexiglass panel with some openings, like it was already done on the other models. The transom is now an open one.

On the interior there are finally two small hull windows and instead of mahogany it can now be done in white stained oak and it is possible that some minor alterations will happen due to the introduction of the hull views and due to a bigger head. That will not result in a smaller saloon due to the elimination of the chart table dedicated seat.

Functionally the two biggest improvements regard the use of a standard single tiller and an optional two-wheel setup instead of a single wheel as well as the possibility of an integrated nice bowsprit with an anchor stand. There is also a small increase in the standard upwind sail area.

Arcona 340, Diva 34SC, Dehler 34
The improvements make the boat look nicer, the head is better, has now a dedicated shower compartment and the interior will look bigger and more luminous in a less dark wood but I really don't like white oak and find it a pity they don't offer more possible wood finishes.

The Diva 34SC has a more recent hull (Bernt Lindquist), only 3 years old with all the beam pulled aft and it has a very nice interior with an interesting solution that maximizes the galley and the saloon at the cost of a narrower stair, an integrated chart table on the saloon table and a smaller head even if with a separated shower. 

The galley is really very good for a 34ft boat as well as the saloon. The galley can also be mounted in a conventional way (without extra costs) with the loss of some space.

It can have a tiller and in that case, it has an open transom or two wheels and in that version, it has two seats behind the wheels that I don't like and restricts the space for the helmsman but I guess that they can be taken off if somebody does not want them. 

Both boats have a single rudder set up, a deep one. Both have L keels but the one of the Diva is more efficient having a torpedo while the one on the Arcona is bulbed. Both have the same draft (1.95m).
The two have mainsail travellers but the Arcona uses a more versatile genoa traveler while the Diva uses a 3D system for the jib. The Arcona uses for the mainsheet a german sheeting system and the Diva a purchase system and that is why the Arcona has 6 winches while the Diva has five.
Arcona 340, Diva 34SC, Dehler 34

The Dehler 34 is probably the Dehler I like more, it is a 4-year-old design (Judel/Vrolijk) with some little details that spoil a bit the nice look, like the integrated bowsprit with anchor stand that does not really look integrated, looking like a plastic piece and with a different white than the one of the boat and the swim platform that is too big and makes the transom too large. The swim platform is optional but if you don't have it the transom shows a step that is not nice.

The interior is spacious, has a good galley, a big head and a saloon that is only a bit spoiled by those rounded cabinets that you really like or hate. But the truth is that they are not functional and look kind of fragile.

The rudder is a single deep one, the keel can be an L bulbed one or a torpedo keel, it can have a tiller or two wheels, it comes with 6 winches, a german mainsheet system, travelers for the genoa and the main.

Let's look at the technical characteristics (m, kg, hp), first the Arcona then the Diva and finally the Dehler. Hull Lenght - 10.40,10.33,10.30; LWL - 9.80, 9.21, 9.60; Beam - 3.45, 3.48, 3.60; Displacement - 5200, 4750, 5950; Ballast - 1900, 1850, 2100; Draft - 1.95,1.95,1.95; B/D - 36.5%, 38.9%, 35.3%; D/L - 153.6, 170.5, 185.8; SA/D - 25.3, 24.5, 20.1.

The Diva has another version with a lighter interior with the furniture made of a lighter  (and more expensive) material and with a keel that instead of being a cast iron fin with a lead bulb, like on the Arcona, it is a steel lighter structure (with foam on the interior) that supports the same lead bulb. The boat is 300kg lighter and has a 34.8% B/D, a 159.6 D/L and a 25.6 SA/D.

Diva ugly seats, Dehler open transom, and cover
Curiously the two keels have the same draft and that can only be explained because most of the sailors that buy this boat sail on the Baltic that has many parts with shallow water, otherwise it would have made much more sense to do as on the Dehler, proposing a 2.1 m performance keel. That would have resulted in a boat 500kg lighter (instead of 300kg, for the same RM) or if they had maintained the same bulb would result in a more powerful sailboat.

The Dehler also has a more expensive version called "Race", 500kg lighter, with carbon spars a 2.10 m torpedo keel (the keel on the other version is a bulbed one) that has 31.2% B/D, 173 D/L and 23.3 SA/D.

We can see that even if the hulls are different in what regards the main characteristics these boats have many points in common especially if we consider the upgraded "Race" version of the Dehler. The Dehler cruising version is clearly below in what regards performances in all points of sail, being the one with proportionally less sail area, the heavier, even if in what regards B/D is only slightly below the Arcona that has the same type of keel.

The Diva has a slightly bigger B/D and has, among the standard boats, the most efficient keel. The keel of the Dehler is bulbed and all cast iron,  the one on the Arcona, like the one on the Diva has a fin in cast iron but while the Diva one has a lead torpedo the one of the Arcona has a lead bulb.
Arcona 345, Diva 34SC, Dehler 34

I am not saying that the cruising version of the Dehler 34 is not an excellent boat, only that the one that is comparable in performance with the two other boats is the one they call Race version. Neither that the cruising version is not interesting, in fact, it is an excellent cruising boat for the price (that is much lower) and even if it does not offer the same performance it offers bigger overall stability and comparable safety stability.

 I can say this with confidence because I saw the stability curves of the two Dehler. Contrary to some brands where, with some logic, the faster version with a deep draft has a bigger RM coming from the keel, on the Dehler they chose to give about the same stability to both boats.

The faster one has a much more efficient 2.10m keel with a lead torpedo, only 1700kg ballast but the standard one with 2100kg ballast, on the all iron 1.95m keel, has about the same stability. The same happens with the Diva that on the standard version, with a cast iron fin and a bulb keel, needs 1850 kg ballast to produce the same effect as 1550 kg ballast on a high-tech steel keel with the same torpedo, but in this case maintaining the same 1.95m draft.

Arcona 345, Diva 34SC, Dehler 34
It seems that many sailors know that the Dehler 34 is a very good deal and that's why the boat is one of the most successful Dehler of the new generation but that does not mean that it has the same building quality of the Arcona or Diva, it is a boat built to be as good as possible while maintaining the costs down, a different approach from the ones of Arcona and Diva that aim at a superior quality.

 In what regards building quality the Dehler is in between the Hanse and the other boats on this comparative, using sandwich with a balsa core, hand-laid lamination, polyester resins and only on the outer layer vinylester resin. It uses a structural cage with carbon reinforcements and the plywood bulkheads are bonded to the hull.

There is imprecision regarding the core material used on the Dehler hull, it says balsa on the standard specifications (2019) and foam on the brochure, but referring a drawing with the Race version. Some years ago the 38 Cruiser version had balsa core while the Race version had foam so, it is possible to be the case here, even if they don't make it clear.

The Arcona 345 uses vacuum infusion and vinylester resins on a sandwich, using as core 20mm divinycell, a very good foam core. The marine plywood bulkheads are bonded to the hull and deck. It has a galvanized steel structure that takes the loads from the keel and rig and distributes them by the hull.
Arcona 345, Diva 34SC, Dehler 34

The Diva 34SC has a high tech building method that is used mostly on race boats, the same that is used on JPKs. The vacuum infused hull, using vinylester resins and a Divinycell core includes the boat structure that becomes an integrant part of the hull giving it a better weight/ratio strength and dispensing the use of bonding agents or lamination of parts.

The bulkheads and structural furniture are also vacuum infused sandwich cored parts, some of them infused with the hull, others laminated to the hull forming an integrated structure with few joints and this allows not only to make a stronger boat but also to save hundreds of kg and that explains why the Diva is the lightest of the three.

In what regards performance cruising all these boats (considering the Dehler Race) have very close performances although with different hulls that give them different sailing characteristics. Another common feature, all that test sailed them loved the way they sailed, so these are three little great boats that I would recommend without hesitation.

The Arcona has the narrower and more classical hull, with the max beam more to the middle of the hull, a boat with excellent light wind and upwind performance and a good overall performance due to its big B/D and a well-proven and well-designed hull. It is from the three the one that has the best race record (and continues to win races) but probably that's also because compared to the Diva there are many more boats built and much more racing.
Arcona 430, Diva 34SC, Delher 34
The Diva 34 SC has a hull with a prominent chine and a large transom with all the beam brought back. It is only slighter beamier than the Arcona (more 3cm), it is designed to sail with less heel, probably has a worse light wind performance but will be easier to sail fast downwind and maybe even on a beam reach. It has a bigger hull form stability and an RM coming from the keel probably bigger than the one of the Arcona.

Not many boats around and even less racing so it is difficult to know what the real performance is in handicap races. In what concerns performance cruising it seems to be at least as good as the very good one of the Arcona, and probably easier to sail due to less heel and an easier downwind ride, with some stronger and weaker sailing points.

The Dehler is by far the beamiest of the three (more 15 cm than the Arcona) but a hull that cannot be considered a very beamy one. For instance, the Oceanis 35.1 that has about the same length has more 12cm at the max beam and the smaller Pogo 30 more 10 cm.  The hull shape is in between the one of the Diva and the one of the Arcona. The Dehler 30 without having the same racing success of the Arcona is perfectly capable of good results in club racing.

I have seen the three boats (Arcona 340) and I confess that although the others don't look bad and have a nice interior when I saw the Diva 34SC I had an irrational desire to have one. The boat is so cute, the interior so nice and the sail characteristics so attractive that it is difficult to resist its charm, especially knowing that it is also a very well built sailboat.

The only thing I don't like are those ugly seats behind the steering wheel that reduce the space for helming the boat, but I saw boats without them so they can be removed and maybe bring the price a bit down. And talking about the price that is one of the factors to have into account because if the price of the two Sweedish boats is more similar, the one on the German boat is lower even if it is difficult to know the price of the "Race" version, assuming it can have a hull built in a different way and with better resins.



The Arcona 345 announced price is 135 456 €, the Diva 34SC costs 149 778 € and the Dehler 34 "cruising" costs  123 900 € (7/2019) and I have no price for the "Race" version (assuming it is possible an upgrade in the hull with vinylester resin, vacuum infusion and high-quality foam core) but without that upgrade, the extras needed to put the Dehler 34 with the same equipment of the other two boats (in what regards performance) cost 14 500€ raising the price to 138 400€.



These are prices of standard boats at the factory, without transport or taxes and the comparative value of each boat can be different depending on the equipment you chose, with prices varying from boat to boat. For example, on the Diva an upgrade for carbon mast and rod rig costs 17 150 € while on the Dehler it costs  25 700€ (the Diva has a bigger and better standard aluminum mast) and the opposite may happen regarding other equipment.



It is worth mentioning that the Dehler comes already with sails, Elvstrom FCL performance (full battened, triradial, main and jib) and that similar sails cost 7980€ on the Diva. The Arcona does not come with sails, neither the 6 winches that are standard on the Dehler as well as the battery charger that is also an option on the Diva.



In the end, the price of the Arcona and the one on the standard Dehler turn out to be their best arguments. The Dehler not offering on the Cruising version the same performance, neither (in any version) the same quality of interior and built quality of any of the other two boats, offers a boat that considering the difference on standard equipment will be about 20 000 euros less expensive (15%) and it makes sense to the ones that will not need or desire the extra performance and like its interior.



On the Dehler, like on many other boats, if you start adding more expensive equipment to have a similar performance of a faster sailboat, in this case, to have the same performance of the  Arcona, then the difference in price will become much smaller and the Arcona continues to be better built, having a better quality interior and a better resale value and it does not seem such a good deal to buy a Dehler Race instead of an Arcona, unless you really fall in love with the Dehler, but love is blind LOL.



The Diva offers a more expensive and superior high-tech build than the Arcona and it seems to offer the best of the two worlds, especially in its more expensive version, offering the nicest interior and a very good sail performance but at a price that only you know if it is worth paying.

It is also the most modern-looking boat and the sexiest one but the difference to the Arcona (both boats standard) is 14 332 euros that will rise to 26 421 euros if you chose the version with the high-tech keel and the lighter interior.
Arcona 340 Katriina II has already an open transom
It looks to me that the lighter version of the Diva should have a superior performance than the Arcona, especially in offshore races but that remains to be proved and in fact, the race results that I saw do not confirm this, not even in real-time and in compensated the Arcona 340 has some top results to show for:

A 2nd place on the 2019 European ORC championship (with a modified keel), a 2nd on the same championship in 2016 and 3 times winner on the Baltic Offshore Championship (all results obtained by the same boat and crew -Katriina II). 

Another Arcona 340 won the class on the  2019 AF Offshore Race (Round Gotland race, the most famous and participated offshore race on the Baltic) and the Arcona 340 has many other smaller victories and good results.

But to win you just don't need a fast boat but also a great crew and as the Arcona 340 has been around already for 10 years it is much more raced than the 3-year-old Diva 34SC. There is at least a professional team racing the Diva in duo but I was not able to find any significant results. Anyway for sure I would like to see the comparative results of one raced by a good duo on the Fastnet for which the boat characteristics seem very well suited.

More relevant information and test sails regarding these boasts - Diva 34SC:
https://interestingsailboats.blogspot.com/2017/10/diva-34sc-what-beauty.html
https://www.yacht.de/multimedia/galerie/rasantes-leichtgewicht-erste-bilder-vom-test-der-diva-34-sc/a114277.html
http://old.seilmagasinet.no/innhold/seilbater-og-utstyr/?article_id=50392
http://www.batliv.se/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Diva-34-SC-B%C3%A5tliv-6-17.pdf
Arcona 345/340:
https://arconayachts.se/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/arcona-a345_web.pdf
https://www.sailmagazine.com/boats/arcona-340
http://sailingmagazine.net/article-963-arcona-340.html
https://www.giornaledellavela.com/2017/07/04/mondiale-orc-prove-di-fuga-dopo-la-lunga-la-sorpresa-viene-dallestonia/
Dehler 34:
http://www.comit.si/media/dehler-34-cenik_pricelist.pdf
https://plaisancenauticservices.fr/dehler/12-dehler-34.html
file:///C:/Users/Utilizador/Downloads/Dehler_34_Test_Review_Boating_New_Zealand_March_2018%20(1).pdf
https://www.sailingtoday.co.uk/boats/12403/
https://www.sailmagazine.com/boats/boat-review-dehler-34


4 comments:

  1. Love this posting , despite great looking hull , floating so beautiful on her lines and best interior , Diva has no chance at this price . Another drawback is that forward swept keel .It's hard to disregard resale value and well known yard is holding a big advantage in my view. Arcona and Dehler are my favorites in this category and I'm drooling over those 2 .

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  2. I don't know if the Diva 34SC has chances with that price or not, it does not seem exaggerated to me given the high-tech superior build and the quality of the interior, it only depends on the market and regarding that you are probably right because it is difficult to sell small expensive cruisers, probably more than expensive big ones, where the profit margin is much bigger.

    Regarding the price it is good to remember that a Hallberg Rassy 340 costs 50 000 € more and it has not the same high-tech building, although probably the HR interior has just a bit better quality....and I am not really sure about that, I would have to see the boats at the same time to be sure.

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  3. I don't see the price of the Diva as prohibitive. Do I think it will be a success? Probably not a massive one, it's clearly a niche build. Those who don't mind the endless rudder or the uhm.. how it looks, really, will probably have no trouble coughing up that kind of money for a well built boat. But expensive small boats are indeed a hard sell.

    It's good to hear that arcona has fixed some of the biggest drawbacks of the old 340. Namely the heads and cockpit ergonomics. Although I don't know how much showering one would want to do with a 130 liter fresh water tanks. And I agree on the white oak. X-yacht style scandinavian oak would've been much nicer. But then again, I can only bring myself to approve of teak, mahogany and dark oak interiors. If it's not good looking wood, it better be pure carbon fiber.

    I've always been a fan of this size bracket for Baltic sailig and I hope X comes up with a new X3 to go up against the arcona. The X-34 was a damn near perfect product for it's time, especially for two short handed crews in heavier winds.

    You posted that comparison with the X-34, Arcona 340 and the finnflyer from Vene magazine. The speed results were the most interesting: the arcona beat everything upwind and was the slowest down wind and noted to be twitchy. The X-34 was second up and down with a relaxed ride and the finnflyer was the fastest downwind and slowest uphill. Reviewers noted that they probably were not able to get most out of the finnflyer and that it's not an easy boat to get full potential.

    So in that sense, giving more thought for downwind performance could've worked well. But most scandi buyers ignore everything except the upwind performance anyways, so I guess it makes sense. I'd much rather have something with a deeper keel when even a torpedo wouldn't be such a liability.

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  4. I don´t have any experience with the Dehler but plenty experience with sailing Arcona 340 (which would be very similar to the 345) and have a friend who sails a Diva 34SC. I would say that the Arcona has a slight edge especially in heavier air as it has more stability, but when the angles open up a bit, the Diva slips away nicely. In the end, performance is quite similar. Under our rating system, the Arcona should be slightly faster I believe.

    BR
    Thomas

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