Since Seascape was bought by Beneteau, and their yachts were renamed First, that there are rumors and announcements of a new First, designed by Sam Manuard (the designer of Seascapes), a yacht following the design criteria of the Seascape 27, but bigger, a fast ClassA cruiser-racer.
Since the time Manuard designed the Seascape 27 his career as a designer of a fast racing yacht grew a lot in relevance, and from a top designer of mini-racers, he became gradually a top 40class and a top IMOCA designer, so, it was with great interest that the new design was awaited. But it took several years to happen, and from a 30/33ft cruiser-racer, it ended up to be a 36ft yacht.
We all expected something as innovative as the Seascape 27 was 10 years ago, but things are complicated in a big company like Beneteau, with many deciding what to design and build, and the new boat, that after all was not designed only by him, ended up being quite a disappointment, for those that waited for a very innovative yacht.
In fact, the boat, due to high freeboards and classic lines looks like an Oceanis or a Dufour, a deja vu design. Beneteau wanted the new boat to be so many things at the same time, that the many mixed compromises ended up producing something that looks bland and not exciting.
In Beneteau's words this yacht is about "the pursuit of the ultimate balance", being this balance not about creating a cruiser-racer able to win offshore races, inshore races, solo or duo, "but about a perfect balance.....between comfort and performance, elegance, and utility..."
The word "elegance" is a bit tricky because it normally refers to past concepts of beauty and a continuing line of development, much as "in the tradition" and makes no sense on this type of performance yacht, where words like sexy, which refer to having contemporary radical racing lines, would be much more adequate.
But "elegance" was what they tried to achieve on the First 36, and therefore it is explained the deja vu look, and I would say that in what regards elegance, it was a failed attempt, since due to high freeboards it is impossible to give it the looks of a smaller First 53, and it ended up very far from Beneteau objective, that was a "classical and timeless aesthetic". As the one responsible for the First 36 design (Lorenzo Argento) says:
" First 36 is following the same design language of her larger sister – First Yacht 53, building on the timeless aesthetic of his work on Wally and Brenta."
Of course, what counts for them is sales, and I cannot say if they are right in what regards this boat to become a big success, it all depends on how the boat sells, and for that, besides the sailing performance, the price, the looks and the interior layout are very important.
In what regards price (more expensive than an Oceanis 40.1), it seems to me too high for a sailboat that is fast, but does not look like a very fast sailboat, with no visual references to top racing, and looks more like a much less expensive mass-production yacht.
The ones that buy this type of yacht want it to be very competitive in what regards IRC/ORC racing or want the looks of the sailboat to scream FAST and INNOVATIVE (not elegant) or both.
For the ones who want first and mostly to race competitively, and also do some cruising with the boat, the First 36, does not seem to have what it
First 36, Sunfast 3600, JPK 10.80, J122e
takes to be competitive in face of the competition, namely the JPK 10.80 and the Sunfast 3600.
For the ones who want to cruise and race (50%) the J112e offers a much better interior, much more elegance, that kind of "classical and timeless aesthetic", and for sure, much better results in IRC/ORC racing.
First36
I bet that over the water the JPK 10.80 and the Sunfast 3600 will be faster, The J112e will be probably only faster in light wind and maybe upwind, but on handicap should have no problem in beating the First 36, and that is not surprising because the J112e is designed by an expert in handicap racing, and the First 36 is designed by a specialist in offshore trade-wind racing designs, without a big experience designing for IRC/ORC racing.
Maybe I am being a bit too harsh on this evaluation, but it really pisses me off that after such a long waiting time, with so great expectations regarding a sexy innovative cruiser-racer by Sam Manuard, all we got was a supposedly elegant, fast cruiser, with a "timeless aesthetic", meaning a traditional design.
Let's see how the First 36 compares with the competition in regards to dimensions and technical characteristics: The First 36 has 11.00m hull length, the JPK 10.80 has 10.80m, the Sunfast 3600 10.80m, the J112e 10.99m. The First 36 has a 3.80m beam, the JPK 10.80 has 3.65m, the Sungfast 3600 3.55m, the J112e 3.60m.
Sunfast 3600
First 36 has a 32.3%BD, a torpedo keel with 2.25m draft, for a 4800kg displacement; the JPK 10.80 has 45.3%BD, a straight keel with 2.20m draft for a 4750kg displacement, the Sunfast 3600 has a 41.8%B/D, a bulbed keel with 2.13m for a 4950kg displacement; the J112e has 33.8%B/D, a bulbed keel for a 5125kg displacement, with 2.10m draft.
The First 36 has an upwind sail area of 80m2 and downwind 180m2; the JPK 10.80 has an upwind sail area of 73m2 and a downwind sail area of 160m2; the Sunfast 3600 has 69.8m2 upwind and 136.8 downwind and the J112e has 71m2 upwind and 180m2 downwind.
JPK 10.80
The First 36 is light and the beamier of the 4. Only the JPK is lighter, but regarding the JPK and the Sunfast, the First low displacement is obtained through less ballast weight (less 600kg than on the JPK, less 518kg than on the Sunfast, less 181kg than on the J112e). And this assuming they can build the First with that displacement, but even so, if we take out the extra ballast on the J112e, the First would be only 144kg lighter.
The First is the one with more sail area but also the one with more drag, especially wave drag, due to being much beamier than all the others and that means it needs more sail area to go at the same speed. It will have a very good performance downwind and it is possible that it will be as fast, or even slightly faster than the JPK and the Sunfast, in medium-strong to strong winds (and certainly easier), but it will lose to the two in all other circumstances and probably will lose for the J112e in lighter winds and upwind.
J122e
Certainly, a very nice hull (Sam Manuard) spoiled by the overall design (Lorenzo Argento), but a bit too much maximized for beam reaching and downwind sailing for being a winner in most sail races. I also doubt that the rating is going to be a good one for IRC/ORC racing.
The interior looks pretty much that of a cruiser-racer very much race-oriented, and it offers a more practical galley than the ones in theJPK and Sunfast, with a true stove. However, the JPK interior looks cozier and the J112e interior is uncomparably better and nicer, looking like the one of a good quality cruising boat.
Sunfast 3600
In the First, the worse is a truly a very small head, that they call innovative. When I visit the boat I will be very curious to see how small it really is, and where is the innovation (besides being too small).
So, just pretend that you have the money and tell me which one you would choose? knowing that regarding price the First is as expensive as the others, including the J112e, which has a much better interior finish.
It seems that the JPK and the Sunfast are slightly less expensive and that is quite surprising. But, of course, we are talking about prices at the factory and about standard boats, and on a fully equipped boat, the difference of price between any of these yachts should not be big.
Depending on the chosen equipment, more cruising, club racing, or top racing, the prices on these boats ready to sail should be between 230 and 280 000 euros, including around 20% European VAT. Expensive? Certainly regarding the amount but not regarding building costs.
JPK 10.80
That's the price of a well-built sailboat, and if they could make it for less money they would because less expensive boats sell better and the competition is strong.
The price of one of these boats is about the same price that would cost a mass production 40ft sailboat from one of the major brands, and it explains why mass production yachts are built the way they are, using polyester resins, non cored hulls, no vacuum infusion, a "contre-moule" as hull
structure, use plywood bulkheads and only bonding agents to secure all in place.
These fast cruiser-racers are built using vacuum infusion techniques (some of them in a single shoot), have cored hulls, most use only vinylester resins, have cored composite bulkheads, bonded and glassed to the hull and deck, the structure frame is glassed and bonded to the hull (and sometimes infused with it). That is why they can be light and strong. That's also why they are better sailing boats and much more expensive ones.
J112e
For the increased price it also counts bigger winches, 6 instead of 2 or 4, better and bigger sail hardware, and in what regards this the differences in price are sometimes 4 times more for same-sized and apparently similar material, but with completely different load capacity. The increased B/D of these boats also contributes to make them more expensive because that demands a stronger hull and a bigger structure to absorb bigger efforts.
You pay what you get and for many, a mass-production boat is enough for their needs, in what regards sail performance and build quality, so why pay for more that you don´t need?
For the ones who want a top sailing machine, they should know that the price would be much higher, the same way nobody expects to pay for a Dacia or a Fiat, the same one pays for an Alpine or a Lotus.
First 36
Saying that the Lotus or the Alpine are expensive, compared to a Dacia or a Fiat, makes so little sense, as saying the same comparing the price of an Oceanis 38.1 with the price of any of these fast cruiser racers.
In fact, they cost about 50% more than an Oceanis, of about the same size, and that is way less than the difference between a same-sized Fiat and a fast small sports car. For me, the problem with the First 36 is that being a sportive boat it looks like a Fiat, and who would like to have a Lotus that looked like a Fiat, even if it has good performance? OK, I am exaggerating, but you get my drift.
Well, just on the basis of prices and performance, the JPK would be my choice, followed by the 112e and the Sunfast. However, I encourage you to reach out directly to the Seascape folks - Andraž Mihelin and Kristian Hajnsek. Or reach out to Sam directly, for his input. I've chatted with Andraž and Kristian on the FB post for the First 36 and they seem happy to speak candidly about it.
May be I am getting "older" but I can appreciate the "timeless aesthetic"... ;-) have to admit hard chines grew old on me a little bit...and anyway it looks like rounded sterns are the best compromise for optimal performances nowadays (more on why this below).
I think she is a beautiful boat with some interesting innovations. Curious about what the head will look like as from the plan it is not clearly understandable. Also I find the modular cockpit extendable seats to upgrade from racing to cruising quite interesting (at this point why not having some sort of pivoting extension ? when I look at some very racing boats I am kinda turned away by the reduced lenght of the benches...where wife lives...).
As per the target on their website there is quite an interesting interview with the structural engineer, Giovanni Belgrano. Two things stand out: modern tools and calculation methods have improved a lot since boats designed ten years ago, an improvement must be expected even if not immediately visible at naked eye. Same can probably be said about hull design by Sam Manuard. This is no more the era of artists (say JPK Jacques Valer) but CFD and immensely more powerful computers can and are used to optimize any boat to a spec. Those tools will optimize hull at any angle in a continuous "integral" fashion that would be humanely impossible by hand (easier with hard chines since they "linearize" the equations and add a clean discontinuity). At that point the performance differences with other boats we cannot really extrapolate with precision from very rough ratios like B/D D/L SA/D etc...btw the torpedo keel is much more efficient than the flat and bulbed keels of the other compared boat so that will impact performance a lot...And for the target they did want to offer a livable cruiser/racer, very indicative in their description of the nav station as a possible "home office" !
As for my pick you know I am torn between keeping my SF3200 (they say best boat you can buy is the one you already have) or transition to a 40ish footer (JPK, Pogo, GS). 36 is generally too small of an improvement to justify the upgrade but I admit I'll have an hard look at this one. I would certainly be interested by a First 40 or the new GS40P, do you have any intel about this upcoming boat? Ciao Alex
Well, just on the basis of prices and performance, the JPK would be my choice, followed by the 112e and the Sunfast. However, I encourage you to reach out directly to the Seascape folks - Andraž Mihelin and Kristian Hajnsek. Or reach out to Sam directly, for his input. I've chatted with Andraž and Kristian on the FB post for the First 36 and they seem happy to speak candidly about it.
ReplyDeleteAt first sight the First 36 reminds me of an Elan 350.
ReplyDeleteMay be I am getting "older" but I can appreciate the "timeless aesthetic"... ;-) have to admit hard chines grew old on me a little bit...and anyway it looks like rounded sterns are the best compromise for optimal performances nowadays (more on why this below).
ReplyDeleteI think she is a beautiful boat with some interesting innovations. Curious about what the head will look like as from the plan it is not clearly understandable. Also I find the modular cockpit extendable seats to upgrade from racing to cruising quite interesting (at this point why not having some sort of pivoting extension ? when I look at some very racing boats I am kinda turned away by the reduced lenght of the benches...where wife lives...).
As per the target on their website there is quite an interesting interview with the structural engineer, Giovanni Belgrano. Two things stand out: modern tools and calculation methods have improved a lot since boats designed ten years ago, an improvement must be expected even if not immediately visible at naked eye. Same can probably be said about hull design by Sam Manuard. This is no more the era of artists (say JPK Jacques Valer) but CFD and immensely more powerful computers can and are used to optimize any boat to a spec. Those tools will optimize hull at any angle in a continuous "integral" fashion that would be humanely impossible by hand (easier with hard chines since they "linearize" the equations and add a clean discontinuity). At that point the performance differences with other boats we cannot really extrapolate with precision from very rough ratios like B/D D/L SA/D etc...btw the torpedo keel is much more efficient than the flat and bulbed keels of the other compared boat so that will impact performance a lot...And for the target they did want to offer a livable cruiser/racer, very indicative in their description of the nav station as a possible "home office" !
As for my pick you know I am torn between keeping my SF3200 (they say best boat you can buy is the one you already have) or transition to a 40ish footer (JPK, Pogo, GS). 36 is generally too small of an improvement to justify the upgrade but I admit I'll have an hard look at this one. I would certainly be interested by a First 40 or the new GS40P, do you have any intel about this upcoming boat? Ciao Alex