Yes, it is true, it is possible, and more incredibly, also possible with 4 cabins and two heads! They call it 41 but it is really a 39.3ft boat. Maybe they call it 41 because, in fact, it has more interior space than many 41ft sailboats, due to having a beam bigger than the one of some 45ft boats. In fact it has the same beam of the Dufour 430 (4.30m), and the Dufour 430 is already a beamy boat.
For giving you some references, the Jeanneau SO 410 has a 3.99 beam, the Oceanis 40.1, 4.18m and the Grand Soleil 40, 4.07m. Kind of a record that beam, which allows for having 3 cabins and three heads, as well as 4 cabins with two heads. Record numbers of cabins and heads also, for a 39ft boat.
They don't announce the displacement, but it has to be smaller than the one of the 430 (9700kg) and because they announce the same ballast (2600kg) in a similar keel with the same draft, the AVS and safety stability will be bigger than on the 430. The overall stability will be proportionally bigger, and due to the huge form stability, it will be a huge one for a 39ft boat.
The interior standing height goes with the beam, and it is also huge, typical of a much bigger sailboat. Even a typical professional basketball player will not have problems standing in this boat, due to the height that the big freeboard allows.
This boat will be excellent for charter and for the ones that have no money for a bigger boat and have a big family, with many children. The interior seems very nice, with many layout options, all featuring a decent-sized galley. Here you can have a virtual visit of two versions, the one with two cabins and two heads and the one with 4 cabins and two heads:
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Above Dufour 41, below
Jeanneau SO 410 |
https://www.dufour-yachts.com/fr/yachts-de-luxe/dufour41/Very nice layouts, with very good interior space, make this a very well-designed boat and this does not mean that I would like to have this type of boat, but that it is very well designed (by Felci and Ardizio) for what it is intended to accomplish: to allow for the biggest number of cabins in a 39 ft sailboat and yet giving it some sailing potential.
Besides being good, it is an honest design that does not try to hide its program. But will it sail? Well, they don't give yet the sail area but this boat, due to the hull form stability and very reasonable ballast has the stability to carry a big mast, allowing for a consequent sail area.
Of course, that will make the boat more expensive, and we have to wait and see what they decide, but without a big mast, a big mainsail is not possible, and because a big genoa is not possible due to the shroud position, a big main is the only way to have a decent sail area, to compensate for the big drag generated by the very beamy hull.
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Above, Dufour 410 ad below SO 410,
the last layout, Sun Odissey 410. |
But the chances are that the boat will have a small area for the available stability. They propose, as standard a jib on a self-tacking rail (optionally a 105% genoa on lateral travelers), and if they wanted to have a big mainsail, they would not have opted for a relatively small boom. So, it will probably be a boat with a small sail area, and a big engine (50hp, optionally 60).
It will not have a good performance in light winds, or upwind (the entries are fat, for allowing space for the 2-bow cabin version and that will make the wave drag huge, as well as slamming upwind. But this is a boat designed to motor upwind, out of flat water and medium winds, where it would have reasonable performance.It is a boat that can be sailed in medium or strong winds beam reaching or downwind, heeling little and in these conditions having a reasonable and in some cases a good performance. And in fact, these sail program makes a lot of sense, because from what I see in the Med, few sail close upwind, even less beat upwind, almost nobody sails with weak winds, and most only use sails in perfect sailing conditions, beam reaching or downwind.
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The interior has several kinds of wood
to choose from, this is the lighter one. |
The running rigging is very simplified and the boat comes only with two winches over the cabin. You can have what they call the "Ocean version" that will come with 2 more winches (like in the drawings) and genoa tracks that will probably allow for a 105% genoa, improving light wind ability. With that pack that costs5620€, the boat comes also equipped for sailing a gennaker.
You will absolutely need what they call "comfort pack" that has things as essential as the anchor windlass and boom vang It will cost 15000 euros.
You will need electronics that will cost you between 8000 and 12500€, depending on options, plus 4.800 for hull epoxy protection and antifouling.
Then you have a long list of options that include the sprayhood, bimini, and almost anything you can think about, in what regards interior comfort and some sailing upgrades, like better or bigger sails than the standard Dracon ones (jib and main), a backstay adjuster, bigger or electric winches and the mainsheet in the cockpit.
The storage seems not to be bad, with two storage compartments under the cockpit seats, and what seems to be a reasonably sized storage compartment aft, under the cockpit floor, but to be sure I have to look at the boat, or at least to have access to videos that show that.
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The slightly darker wood choice. |
Standard (3 cabins, two heads, one shower) the boat costs at the shipyard, without VAT 230 000 euros, and for having a minimum equipped sailing away boat it would cost you 33 420€ more. If, like most, you want a sprayhood and a bimini, more 7700€. In the end a minimum of 271 120 euros plus transportation and preparation. It may look expensive, but the price of yachts increased a big time over the last 2 years, and this boat offers a lot in regard to interior accommodation and on the drawings the interior seems very agreeable.
If it looks as well, in reality, I have no doubt that this boat will sell very well, and will fulfill the requirements of many cruisers, that just want a nice coastal, and safe boat to cruise, with a lot of interior space. The big optional 60hp engine and the big overall stability will allow this boat to face almost any coastal circumstances, and the small sail area will allow for saving some fuel, sailing when the conditions are ideal. In the end, the program of this boat will suit many even if it is not adequate for the ones that like sailing, as much as cruising, but they are a minority.
This boat risks being a trendsetter in regard to design criteria, a model that all main brands will follow.
And that can be a good thing, even for all that like sailing, because being more extreme in what regards more interior space and amenities, and less sailing potential, it will increase the number of sailors that will find that this is too much, in what regards to diminished sail potential.
And that will create a bigger niche market, constituted by the ones that feel that way, and that will allow more sailboats to be produced targeting that market, that will not interest big brands (that will follow Dufour) but will allow smaller brands to grow in number and production.
If you are interested in buying a 40ft in this price range you may also be interested in looking at this:
https://interestingsailboats.blogspot.com/2020/02/new-40-ft-cruisers-oceanis-401-versus.html
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Hi,
ReplyDeleteI don’t like your question. It will give me a lot of work to answer LOL
Beam is more important to allow for a bigger interior than length. The volume can be the same but the possible use of space is not. In doing a 12.5 m boat what you gain is storage space, a bow sail locker and a bigger aft locker.
When you increase beam a lot, like in this case, you will gain a lot in the in the width of the rear cabins and in the width of the bow cabin.
Surprisingly it does not seem the case here (I still fear that they have published the wrong numbers), but a wider boat needs less ballast for sailing than a narrower one, due to the much bigger hull force stability, that is more used for sailing than the one that comes from the ballast.
Because what counts most for performance in flat water and downwind is the wetted surface and beamy boats, because they have less displacement than a longer boat with the same interior volume (they need less ballast), have about the same wetted surface of the longer one. Therefore they don’t need more sail than the one on longer boat, except for upwind sailing with waves, a thing that the magazine testers try to avoid when they test these boats.
The performance in light winds is also worse, and that’s why sail testers always test the boats with a code 0, when the wind is weak, even if most cruisers don’t use them. It helps to hide the poorer performance with weak winds.
Of course, the boat needs ballast to have a good safety stability but they are cutting corners there, and providing the boat sails relatively well, they can care less, if it passes the minimum for the boat to be certified as class A.
I would say that 20 years ago the average AVS on 40 to 45ft cruisers from the big brands was near 120º, today it is around 110º and it is difficult to know because they do not publish that data, and the magazines that 20 years ago demanded and published that data have stopped to do so, many years ago.
More important in cost than to make it 15 or 20cm wider it is the cost of making the hull stronger and the cost of a beefier structure, needed to have a boat with more ballast.
Believe me, if they all are increasing the beam in practically all cruisers, it is because that way they can make less expensive boats for a bigger usable interior space, and because less and less people beat to windward, or sail upwind with waves, in the end it is a good solution for most, because the boats has more usable interior space, sail well in a beam reach or downwind, with less heel, and the ones that will experience extreme situations where the difference in safety stability and AVS will be very important, are few, because most boats are used for coastal cruising and most sailors avoid bad weather.
The perfect contemporary motor-sailor ... ;-)
ReplyDeleteIrony apart, this looks like a smart product with a lot of engineering that went into it. Thank you for your thorough analysis and great writeup, Paulo.
One can appreciate the value proposition of a product without having to like it ... ;-)
The perfect contemporary motorsailer ... ;-)
ReplyDeleteGreat write-up, as always, Paulo!!!